The True Human Spirit
A Bursting Through Interview
Susan Montag is a writer who lives in Saint Paul, Minnesota. She spent a lot of years as a teacher and now helps hold up Democracy as a state government employee. She’s been mouthing off about Trump since he came down that golden escalator.
Q. As individuals, we have many layers. I know you as a writer and a fierce voice that pushes back against patriarchy and white supremacy. Where did you find the courage to speak up against what you know to be wrong and how might others find their voice?
A. I think I was born mouthy. It has been getting me in trouble for as long as I can remember. I was raised in an extremely repressed culture where my existence was pretty much impossible. The gender norms for girls did not resonate with me. I wanted to run and yell and act wild when I was a kid.
When I was a teenager, I wanted to be a rock star, when the world told me my role was to be a groupie.
I have many fond memories of mouthing off and getting in trouble for it, so I think it’s part of my nature. Though I will admit, I went through a brief period in my twenties when I tried to be a “grown up” and go along with the patriarchy. Thank god I snapped out of that.
Q. You are also an outspoken supporter of gay and trans people. What led you to that support and become an Active Ally to the Queer Community?
A. It’s hard to say that anything led me to be a supporter of gay and trans people, but I will say that a lot of my work as a writer has been an attempt to push against the stupid gender stuff that has been pushed on me as a woman. Patriarchy insists that sexuality and gender are like a cookie-cutter repeating pattern.
It isn’t. You are you, I am me.
Why is that threatening to them? Well, we know why.
Because in order for patriarchy to work, we have to be cookie cutter—our intellect, our creativity, our spirituality, our sexuality—that is all a threat. My support for gay and trans people is simply my support for the existence of the true human spirit. What other purpose is there to exist than to live out who we really are?
Q. There has been an uptick in the amount of hate speech being used throughout this country. As an Active Ally and a writer, how does the language and tone of how to talk to and about each other matter?
A. The question of language is a huge question. Language shapes the world we live in. Unfortunately human beings are very susceptible to propaganda and shorthand slogans like “woke” which the right translates into any possible thing that makes people feel uncomfortable or they don’t understand.
I think it comes down to a fear of being left out—a deep-seated insecurity that repressed people experience when they see other people living authentically.
You and I once had a conversation, and you said something that stuck with me, which I have repeatedly to others. You said that after you moved from your small midwestern town and lived on the east coast and then on the west coast; when you went back to Iowa, people would talk about how people on the coasts dismissed them as “flyover country.” But the only people you ever heard talk about flyover country was the people in Iowa.
Insecurity fuels so much of the “anti-woke” movement.
Powerful people have done an excellent job of manipulating the American psyche to their own advantage, convincing swaths of the population to freak out about trans people or immigrants, when the real danger is billionaire oligarchs. There are a lot of unreachable people, but I do think there are people who are just kind of blinking awake right now, and we have to collectively find a language to invite them in.
Q. We are at a place in our society where it has become complicated to talk about anything that will lead to understanding and change. How do you approach connecting with people on uncomfortable and deeply personal issues?
A. I just try to use my voice as much as possible, in every context that I can. Not every conversation has to be big. I let people know where I stand—my family members, my coworkers, random people.
I don’t go along with the idea that we keep quiet in certain situations just to be nice.
My partner has learned to take this seriously—I don’t sit at tables where I’m expected to be quiet in the face of racism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia. I don’t scream and yell, but I don’t stay quiet.
I’m a writer and I mouth off on social media a lot, and I’m working on a novel that I consider my own contribution to smashing the patriarchy. I would encourage other people to take up their own voice, big or small, in whatever form it takes. We are not speaking alone, we are part of the whole. It’s never been more important.
Q. Bursting Through was founded on and around Active Allyship. Active Allyship is simply living your values out loud every day in every way possible. Values are more show than tell. How do you show your values?
A. No one who knows me has any doubt where I stand. In 2017, I took a bus from Minnesota to Washington DC for the women’s march on Washington. I write I speak, and I try to be a support person for other people doing the work.
On a related note—as you know my son’s partner is a trans man. Last weekend, they impulsively invited me and my partner Richard to go to the Black Heart in Saint Paul, which is a gay bar. There was a burlesque/drag show that night and we had a blast.
Matthew and Nico have been working to get their ducks in a row to get married asap due to our scary political world. They had been planning to go before a judge, but that proved to be more complicated than it sounds. So they were looking for an officiant to get it done.
That night at the bar, they asked me if I would officiate. I was so touched! I should have my paperwork in order next week and they are going to come over on Wednesday night and get married at my house! Can you believe it! I am so honored I can barely stand it!
Q. Standing up for what we know is right and rejecting the powerful voices who are wrong is difficult. It takes courage, confidence, and feeling personally safe. What are three things people who might not have the confidence or feel safe to speak out do to feel less alone and be heard?
A. First, I would say that we need to avoid arguing with (or interacting with at all) those people whose ideologies are based on hate and who mean to do harm to us and the people we care about.
This includes online trolls and family members who are lost to the cult.
This is an energy drain and a waste of precious time. Plus it is scary, and because these interactions are hopeless, they will make us want to give up. As much as we desire some kind of acknowledgment from them that they have made a grave mistake, spending our time seeking it out will keep us from more productive activities.
Second, do not underestimate the importance of your voice to the people in your immediate surroundings. Small talk gets dismissed as being frivolous, but in his book On Tyranny, Timothy Snyder says that in times like this it becomes an important tool.
Get a feel for people in your world—your coworkers, the server at the restaurant, your neighbors. Make eye contact with them. You may find opportunities to connect in understanding. It is going to become more and more important that we have networks at a local level.
Look for places where people are already joining together. Go to gay-friendly bars, live music events, or even a liberal church. I know this is much easier in urban areas, but even in rural areas, seek ways to connect and get together in person. We need these safe spaces to support each other and also to share information in authentic ways.
Finally, I would say, right now we are all pensive. We don’t know what to do and we are all incredibly anxious. Spend this time doing what you can—calling your representatives or having conversations.
Build coalitions so that when the time comes for larger opportunities, such as protests, you can attend with others or respond in a more organized way.
Thank you Susan for sharing your true human spirit and inspiring us all to live out who we really are.
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